This just ain't right. Darren Clarke was on the 2007 PGA Money list and I picked 'em. Now he wins $220,000 in a PGA tour event and it's not gonna count because the PGA doesn't list him as a member of the tour this year??!! I know this happened with Stenson before (I didn't agree with that decision then either). Clarke won $$$ in a PGA tour event, he was eligible to be picked since he was on the 2007 money list, and it should count in the FPGP. Hell, he's playing next week in the freakin' PGA! Justice is due!!!
15 comments:
Sorry chief... you knew the Stenson position and in that thread even asked about Clarke... you have to do your own due diligence. I'm not going to start playing the "well, if he won $220k, he'd be this number" and re-adjust everyone else that is behind that spot.
The issue was brought up in this post, in February:
http://fpgp.blogspot.com/2008/02/update-22408.html
I don't see any part of this where Vodo said "I don't agree with this [decision to Gossett Stenson]". If there was an issue, back in February, we could have considered talking about it then... but we're not about to change the rules at the beginning of August. In fact, my vast legal background [which amounts to no legal background] suggests to me that you have no footing on this issue. The rules of the FPGP, with regard to how we accumulate points says, and I quote:
For “regular” picks, you earn points based on:
1) Positive (i.e. improvement) changes in the PGA Money List rankings from 2007 to 2008.
2) Actual money earned on the PGA Tour in 2008.
So, while you may make an argument that DC earned $220,000 and as such you are entitled to points based under section 2 "actual money earned...", you have no footing at all on section 1. There is no positive change on Clarke's money list position in 2008.
And yes, this sucks... if I knew that Clarke wasn't a full Tour member back when you picked him, I would have said something. If you remember, I questioned Johnny V.'s pick of Richard S. Johnson, because I wasn't sure about his status and thought he picked the wrong guy (that is, he was picking the other Richard Johnson, who graduated from the Nationwide Tour). The point is, as a commish, I run a fairly benevolent dictatorship... I try to look out for people during Pick Time. But at the end of the day, you have to do your own homework.
I'll further add these two nuggets:
1. Because DC is not a member of the PGA Tour (this is not some slight on the PGA's side... he simply did not want to be a member this year), his official winnings from the Bridgestone are credited to his European Tour standing, where he is a member... it's even listed in Euros:
http://www.europeantour.com/publish.sps?syndicatorguid=&rmasiteinstanceguid=&pagegid=%7B20E6AA6B-0225-4C71-BD89-2ACBEE615D69%7D&playerid=5889
2. The Gossett Rule (in the official rules), says the following:
What is the David Gossett Rule?
If a player fails to make a single cut, their earnings are set to $0, and their “ranking” is set to the last player on tour plus one. For example, one of last year’s picks, Craig Perks, did not earn any official money on tour. Because there were 256 players (Guy Boros was #256) who earned some money on tour, Craig Perks “ranking” was set to 257. Note that the only dollars that count in this pool are official PGA Tour dollars. If you pick some limey who makes 2 million euros on the European Tour, but nothing on the PGA Tour, you get nada.
Please note that last two sentences.
Officially, the money that was earned by DC this week was for the Euro Tour standings, not the PGA Tour. Officially, these were not "PGA Tour dollars" for DC. They are Euro Tour Dollars.
Case. Closed.
So, any money won in the PGA this week would also not count? It's a PGA tour event.
Yeah, I know, he's not officially on the PGA Tour!
The only way money "counts" is if it shows up on the official money list. I'd bet a dollar that if Clarke makes the cut and earns some money this week, it will get credited to his Euro Tour stats... much like how the American players get the British Open money credited to their PGA Tour stats. The Euro Tour splash page features the PGA tourney at the top of its "this week" banner... clearly any of the limeys from the Euro Tour that are playing in Michigan this week are able to count that money on their tour.
That said, if for some reason Clarke pops up on the official PGA Tour money list, of course those dollars and change in the rankings will be applied to his/your standing in the pool. If the dollars don't show up on that official list, there is nothing to credit.
Hey, thanks for the detailed explanation, seriously. Just to avoid this in the future, where is the best site for information as to whether guys will be on the PGA Tour for the following year? Because Clarke was listed as a member of the PGA tour when I picked him in December of 2007 on the PGA site (under the "players" link).
Actually, I don't know... it was news to me that Stenson wasn't an official member. You could probably Google search and find something, but I really don't know. Like I said, if I knew that Stenson or Clarke were not going to get "official" money, I would have said something. Frankly, I was probably just as surprised as you this morning when I did the update and he wasn't listed.
I actually had DC on my short list back in December. So how did he not end up on one of my teams? I simply asked DC if he was going to play in the US this year. Well, I joined his free fan club and asked if he was going to play much on the PGA tour. Someone, maybe DC himself, sent me an email back with the answer. That was how I ended up with with that terrible club golfer, Chris Stroud, on my team instead of DC. Ahh, it's paying dividends.
Hope y'all enjoy the free advice on how to do some research on pga tour players. PGA Tour players, I hope this helps you to get 2 people visiting your website. Two people you ask? Yes, your mom that you don't call and some FPGP loser.
I figured that if anyone knew, it would be Shades.
I've been out of pocket for 3 weeks working very hard in Montreal, Vancouver, and Milwaukee. In fact, have the pressure of closing down a bar tonight.
Excellent explanations by New Tex.
Frankly, all that was needed to tell Vodo was "Boo F-----g Hoo." Just keep crying that river Stevie.
well well, da bandit now thinks he is john waite (or mel tillis for that matter) - looks like you'll be crying a river out of the money in this years pool-
stevo has a point for the future: without a reliable database or website to determine pga tour status, it may limit the chances pool players are willing to take, and may in a small way limit variability of picks. the Tour needs to provide access to this, maybe shades can mail finchem...
Interesting that someone who hasn't seen a plus sign in the pool for 2 years thinks that Steve has a valid point.... that's equivalent to Isiah Thomas giving advice on how to run a basketball franchise or Roger Clemens talking to young kids about drug usage.
Well, there are definitely 124 players to choose from every year (the exempt 125, minus Tiger), plus, i'd say about 15-20 guys who qualify via Q-school or Nationwide who are also eligible.
With 140ish elibible players, I'm not too worried about the variability effects of knowing exactly which Euro is officially on or off the PGA Tour.
If we REALLY wanted variability, we could do a player draft... but given this group's inability to pull its collective head out of its collective ass on simple matters, that would be a complete nightmare.
Now quit whining and buy American.
Oh, and if you want data... in the last 3 FPGPs, there has been very little relationship between success and picking limey/euro.
The top 3 in 2006, Bandit, Stevie V. and Johnny V.: Johnny had Goosen... no one else had anyone that even resembled a Euro Tour player.
Top 3 in 2007, New Tex, Bandit and Excal... only Bandit had a legit limey, Padraig Harrington.
Top 3 currently, Tev, Tex, and Shades... the closest thing to a limey in this group is Shades' pick of Poulter, but he got him at a bargain basement price during the trade season, after it was clear what Tour he was playing on.
The lesson... don't waste picks on Euros.
Oh, there is one other interesting relationship to note... the relationship between "success" and "picks made by Robbo" is 0!
Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Holy shit. I just noticed that poor f --- g Ryan has both Clarke and Stenson on his team! Now that really sucks. This has cost him some serious points; he's lost a combined 261 points due to these two guys.
This seems to be way too much punishment. Maybe it would be fairer to assign "0" points to these type of picks. This would still result in a penalty (albeit less harsh) and not change the standings in any meaningful way.
Upon further investigation, a "0" designation would plop my sole supporter, Robbo, in the cellar. But, being a man of integrity and principle, and epitome of the word "bellissimo," I anticipate his approval in this matter.
If nothing else, perhaps such a rule could be applied next year (just in case it happens again)!
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